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	<title>Comments on: Cockeyed optimism</title>
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	<description>Spending too much on comics, then talking too much about them</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Blog@Newsarama &#187; Some of our favorite female creators</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-8302</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog@Newsarama &#187; Some of our favorite female creators</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-8302</guid>
		<description>[...] Jakala and David Welsh recently shared some of their favorite comic works &#8220;that happen to be by female [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jakala and David Welsh recently shared some of their favorite comic works &#8220;that happen to be by female [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quick comic comments: Fourths &#171; Precocious Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7955</link>
		<dc:creator>Quick comic comments: Fourths &#171; Precocious Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7955</guid>
		<description>[...] Filed under: Quick Comic Comments, Netcomics, Del Rey &#8212; davidpwelsh @ 6:09 am   Not long ago, I posted a list of my favorite comics created by women. Not long after that, an Amazon shipment [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Filed under: Quick Comic Comments, Netcomics, Del Rey &#8212; davidpwelsh @ 6:09 am   Not long ago, I posted a list of my favorite comics created by women. Not long after that, an Amazon shipment [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Jakala</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7623</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jakala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 04:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7623</guid>
		<description>Tina -

No problem:  I was offline all weekend, so there's a lot I'm still catching up on myself (and a lot I'm probably missing).

Based on your later comment to David, it sounds like your remarks were more general and not directed at me specifically, so I'll just focus on one point I found interesting.  (Let me know if I missed anything that was supposed to be directed at me!)

What manga are you thinking of when you write "Japanese action comics have some of the worst representations of women, ever"?  I know not all manga offer the best portrayals of women, either, but most of the series I follow have strong female characters in them.  &lt;i&gt;Kekkaishi&lt;/i&gt; has Tokine, who in many respects is more adept than Yoshimori and who often pulls his fat out of the fire.  &lt;i&gt;Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service&lt;/i&gt; has a strong female lead who serves as the group's leader (although the artistic choice to show her nipples as perpetually erect is distracting and annoying).  &lt;i&gt;Bleach&lt;/i&gt; has several strong female characters (although I'll grant that too often Tite Kubo inflates female characters' mammaries to ridiculous proportions).  At first Ako annoyed the heck out of me in &lt;i&gt;Dragon Head&lt;/i&gt;, but in later volumes she's been holding her own.  &lt;i&gt;Nausicaa&lt;/i&gt; features a strong female lead.  &lt;i&gt;Akira&lt;/i&gt; has Kei, who kicks all kinds of ass.  Even &lt;i&gt;Sgt. Frog&lt;/i&gt; has Aki and Natsumi (and while there's fanservice involved, both characters spend a fair amount of time kicking frog butt.)

The one example that came to the mind was &lt;i&gt;Cyborg 009&lt;/i&gt;, where the only female cyborg on the team seems relegated to caring for the infant cyborg, but that's an old series that has other problems as well.  (The racial caricatures are embarrassing and outdated.)

I'm sure there are bad examples out there; I just don't think I've run across them yet, so I'd be curious to hear which ones you were thinking of.

As for the rest of your comment, I agree with all of it, so I'll just stop there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina -</p>
<p>No problem:  I was offline all weekend, so there&#8217;s a lot I&#8217;m still catching up on myself (and a lot I&#8217;m probably missing).</p>
<p>Based on your later comment to David, it sounds like your remarks were more general and not directed at me specifically, so I&#8217;ll just focus on one point I found interesting.  (Let me know if I missed anything that was supposed to be directed at me!)</p>
<p>What manga are you thinking of when you write &#8220;Japanese action comics have some of the worst representations of women, ever&#8221;?  I know not all manga offer the best portrayals of women, either, but most of the series I follow have strong female characters in them.  <i>Kekkaishi</i> has Tokine, who in many respects is more adept than Yoshimori and who often pulls his fat out of the fire.  <i>Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service</i> has a strong female lead who serves as the group&#8217;s leader (although the artistic choice to show her nipples as perpetually erect is distracting and annoying).  <i>Bleach</i> has several strong female characters (although I&#8217;ll grant that too often Tite Kubo inflates female characters&#8217; mammaries to ridiculous proportions).  At first Ako annoyed the heck out of me in <i>Dragon Head</i>, but in later volumes she&#8217;s been holding her own.  <i>Nausicaa</i> features a strong female lead.  <i>Akira</i> has Kei, who kicks all kinds of ass.  Even <i>Sgt. Frog</i> has Aki and Natsumi (and while there&#8217;s fanservice involved, both characters spend a fair amount of time kicking frog butt.)</p>
<p>The one example that came to the mind was <i>Cyborg 009</i>, where the only female cyborg on the team seems relegated to caring for the infant cyborg, but that&#8217;s an old series that has other problems as well.  (The racial caricatures are embarrassing and outdated.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are bad examples out there; I just don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve run across them yet, so I&#8217;d be curious to hear which ones you were thinking of.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your comment, I agree with all of it, so I&#8217;ll just stop there.</p>
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		<title>By: davidpwelsh</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7461</link>
		<dc:creator>davidpwelsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 00:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7461</guid>
		<description>"I’d be happy going back to just the occasional titillation, as opposed to the constant crap that’s been cropping up, every new solicitation."

I can't argue with that, and there seems to be less and less of a playful quality to any of it.  It's just tits and ass without any life to it.  (And thanks for linking to that &lt;i&gt;Wonder Woman&lt;/i&gt; run, which was one of my favorite books at the time until everything started going all crisis-y.  I remember the interior art being really solid, too.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d be happy going back to just the occasional titillation, as opposed to the constant crap that’s been cropping up, every new solicitation.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t argue with that, and there seems to be less and less of a playful quality to any of it.  It&#8217;s just tits and ass without any life to it.  (And thanks for linking to that <i>Wonder Woman</i> run, which was one of my favorite books at the time until everything started going all crisis-y.  I remember the interior art being really solid, too.)</p>
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		<title>By: gynocrat</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7453</link>
		<dc:creator>gynocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 21:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7453</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I honestly don’t think John was telling anyone to stop complaining, Tina.&lt;/i&gt;  I know he wasn't, but it's that particular sentiment that has indeed sparked many a blog post, even the sensible ones, like yours and Mr. Jakula's.  The problem is, Super-hero comics vary from story to story and cover to cover, so what draws many of us in, has been known to suddenly shift, and do a complete 180 in the 'sexist and stupid' department. 

Case in point: Look at this particular arc of Wonder Woman - look at these covers and tell me which one looks out of place
http://www.inter-comics.com/index.php?main_page=index&#38;cPath=2_67

If you guessed #222, then your objectification senses are tingling. Now mind you, this cover itself is not as bad as it could've been, in the hands of an artist known for 'more fanservice' style art--#222 in itself is not that bad in the grand scheme of things-yet for this story, it just seemed like it was, "accidental on purpose", a necessary reminder that, hey, there's chicks fighting in this issue...and sadly, this one the best selling issue for this arc. 0_0.

Now, I don't mind these sort of occasional gimmicks, and no--not all super hero comics go overboard, as you can see, the occasional break from the 'objectification-junk-food' does take place in between what are some damn good stories.  Yet lately, and I don't know if it's because of the media attention, or the rise in attention of the comics industry in general...but the instances of cheese are occurring, far too close together these days.  I'd be happy going back to just the occasional titillation, as opposed to the constant crap that's been cropping up, every new solicitation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I honestly don’t think John was telling anyone to stop complaining, Tina.</i>  I know he wasn&#8217;t, but it&#8217;s that particular sentiment that has indeed sparked many a blog post, even the sensible ones, like yours and Mr. Jakula&#8217;s.  The problem is, Super-hero comics vary from story to story and cover to cover, so what draws many of us in, has been known to suddenly shift, and do a complete 180 in the &#8217;sexist and stupid&#8217; department. </p>
<p>Case in point: Look at this particular arc of Wonder Woman - look at these covers and tell me which one looks out of place<br />
<a href="http://www.inter-comics.com/index.php?main_page=index&amp;cPath=2_67" rel="nofollow">http://www.inter-comics.com/index.php?main_page=index&amp;cPath=2_67</a></p>
<p>If you guessed #222, then your objectification senses are tingling. Now mind you, this cover itself is not as bad as it could&#8217;ve been, in the hands of an artist known for &#8216;more fanservice&#8217; style art&#8211;#222 in itself is not that bad in the grand scheme of things-yet for this story, it just seemed like it was, &#8220;accidental on purpose&#8221;, a necessary reminder that, hey, there&#8217;s chicks fighting in this issue&#8230;and sadly, this one the best selling issue for this arc. 0_0.</p>
<p>Now, I don&#8217;t mind these sort of occasional gimmicks, and no&#8211;not all super hero comics go overboard, as you can see, the occasional break from the &#8216;objectification-junk-food&#8217; does take place in between what are some damn good stories.  Yet lately, and I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s because of the media attention, or the rise in attention of the comics industry in general&#8230;but the instances of cheese are occurring, far too close together these days.  I&#8217;d be happy going back to just the occasional titillation, as opposed to the constant crap that&#8217;s been cropping up, every new solicitation.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh Walton</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7449</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh Walton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 20:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7449</guid>
		<description>I will never tire of sharing &lt;a href="http://www.savantmag.com/pdf/ActivistsCookbook.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;Savant's collection of STOP BUYING COMICS YOU HATE essays&lt;/a&gt;. Something like five years old and still needed, now more than ever. It's always new to somebody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will never tire of sharing <a href="http://www.savantmag.com/pdf/ActivistsCookbook.pdf" rel="nofollow">Savant&#8217;s collection of STOP BUYING COMICS YOU HATE essays</a>. Something like five years old and still needed, now more than ever. It&#8217;s always new to somebody.</p>
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		<title>By: davidpwelsh</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7445</link>
		<dc:creator>davidpwelsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 19:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7445</guid>
		<description>I honestly don't think John was telling anyone to stop complaining, Tina.  I think he was speaking specifically to the people of whatever gender who, for whatever reason, don't derive the pleasure they used to from super-hero comics and suggesting that continuing to spend money on products they don't enjoy -- maybe especially if those products don't provide the acknowledgement or equality or positivity that everyone deserves -- might be something they'd want to reconsider.  And you're right -- if no one complains, the publishers won't have any reason to change the status quo.  If the complaints are coupled with a hit to those publishers' bottom lines, the complaining might carry even more weight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly don&#8217;t think John was telling anyone to stop complaining, Tina.  I think he was speaking specifically to the people of whatever gender who, for whatever reason, don&#8217;t derive the pleasure they used to from super-hero comics and suggesting that continuing to spend money on products they don&#8217;t enjoy &#8212; maybe especially if those products don&#8217;t provide the acknowledgement or equality or positivity that everyone deserves &#8212; might be something they&#8217;d want to reconsider.  And you&#8217;re right &#8212; if no one complains, the publishers won&#8217;t have any reason to change the status quo.  If the complaints are coupled with a hit to those publishers&#8217; bottom lines, the complaining might carry even more weight.</p>
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		<title>By: gynocrat</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7431</link>
		<dc:creator>gynocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 15:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7431</guid>
		<description>Sorry John, busy with my own pitch to MINX at the moment and didn't catch this right away--wasn't ignoring you. ^_-

First thing I want to say is, female fans who are complaining, are in fact, fans of ACTION COMICS.  Please…do not direct Action comics fen, to Japanese action comics featuring women and girls! Japanese action comics have some of the worst representations of women, ever. ^__^”  For that matter, stop suggesting Shoujo [not you personally]. We’re action fans – not fans of comics about “girls and womens love lives”.  

&lt;i&gt;Don’t support the offensive material financially but continue to put pressure on the companies to rectify their systemic shortcomings?&lt;/i&gt;

I can speak for myself only, and so I won't speak for anyone at WFA, or anywhere else--I don't know them.  I'm a fan of my gender first.  Being a fan of being female, I go to great lengths to bring awareness to just how awesome my gender is.  Feminism, to me, is about celebrating my place in this world; it’s not about demeaning a man’s place in it, or even trying to be better than a man…it’s just about being as cool a person as I can possibly be, while celebrating my gender and all the wonderful things it represents.  Now because of the way ‘social evolution’ has gone, I have to remind others occasionally, that there’s nothing wrong with being female.  --I'm not saying give me a drink or throw me a party, by celebrating I mean: just acknowledging me as an equal, your human peer, not your social enemy or responsibility.  I shouldn't have to blog, or fight, or complain, in order to get that acknowledgment. Should I? 

Since I established that I do indeed love my gender, then naturally, this will affect how I like to see my gender portrayed; in the things I love the most.  I love Japanese comics, I love erotic Japanese comics, but I don't like the way women are presented in most Japanese erotic comics--so I turned to BL.  I like BL, it makes me feel good.  Problem solved.   Now, I do not read many novels or watch much TV, so I look for my drama and action fix in Western comics, namely, superhero comics. Am I wrong to expect that superhero comics &lt;i&gt;please exercise a little acknowledgment of my gender, in an equal and positive light&lt;/i&gt;?  I don't think so.  As a matter of fact, as a productive member of society and the comic buying market, I think I'm plenty entitled, just as are many of the women who are suddenly being told to stop complaining, and try something new, are just as entitled.  What you call complaining, I call, making people talk. And talking people, always bring about change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry John, busy with my own pitch to MINX at the moment and didn&#8217;t catch this right away&#8211;wasn&#8217;t ignoring you. ^_-</p>
<p>First thing I want to say is, female fans who are complaining, are in fact, fans of ACTION COMICS.  Please…do not direct Action comics fen, to Japanese action comics featuring women and girls! Japanese action comics have some of the worst representations of women, ever. ^__^”  For that matter, stop suggesting Shoujo [not you personally]. We’re action fans – not fans of comics about “girls and womens love lives”.  </p>
<p><i>Don’t support the offensive material financially but continue to put pressure on the companies to rectify their systemic shortcomings?</i></p>
<p>I can speak for myself only, and so I won&#8217;t speak for anyone at WFA, or anywhere else&#8211;I don&#8217;t know them.  I&#8217;m a fan of my gender first.  Being a fan of being female, I go to great lengths to bring awareness to just how awesome my gender is.  Feminism, to me, is about celebrating my place in this world; it’s not about demeaning a man’s place in it, or even trying to be better than a man…it’s just about being as cool a person as I can possibly be, while celebrating my gender and all the wonderful things it represents.  Now because of the way ‘social evolution’ has gone, I have to remind others occasionally, that there’s nothing wrong with being female.  &#8211;I&#8217;m not saying give me a drink or throw me a party, by celebrating I mean: just acknowledging me as an equal, your human peer, not your social enemy or responsibility.  I shouldn&#8217;t have to blog, or fight, or complain, in order to get that acknowledgment. Should I? </p>
<p>Since I established that I do indeed love my gender, then naturally, this will affect how I like to see my gender portrayed; in the things I love the most.  I love Japanese comics, I love erotic Japanese comics, but I don&#8217;t like the way women are presented in most Japanese erotic comics&#8211;so I turned to BL.  I like BL, it makes me feel good.  Problem solved.   Now, I do not read many novels or watch much TV, so I look for my drama and action fix in Western comics, namely, superhero comics. Am I wrong to expect that superhero comics <i>please exercise a little acknowledgment of my gender, in an equal and positive light</i>?  I don&#8217;t think so.  As a matter of fact, as a productive member of society and the comic buying market, I think I&#8217;m plenty entitled, just as are many of the women who are suddenly being told to stop complaining, and try something new, are just as entitled.  What you call complaining, I call, making people talk. And talking people, always bring about change.</p>
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		<title>By: Davey</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7426</link>
		<dc:creator>Davey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 15:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7426</guid>
		<description>I gave up on superhero comics almost 10 years ago, and I haven't regretted it for a moment. I read more comics today than ever before - manga, European and indie comics. For anyone frustrated by superhero comics, I highly recommend trying something new. The volume of comics that are being published today in a wide variety of genres is incredible. It would be a shame to miss out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave up on superhero comics almost 10 years ago, and I haven&#8217;t regretted it for a moment. I read more comics today than ever before - manga, European and indie comics. For anyone frustrated by superhero comics, I highly recommend trying something new. The volume of comics that are being published today in a wide variety of genres is incredible. It would be a shame to miss out.</p>
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		<title>By: Chloe</title>
		<link>http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7424</link>
		<dc:creator>Chloe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 14:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://precur.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/cockeyed-optimism/#comment-7424</guid>
		<description>I'm actually sort of inclined to disagree with idea that either DC or Marvel could print up a few girl oriented titles then wham, be in the green. It would take a &lt;i&gt;serious&lt;/i&gt; push from either of them to even issue a challenge to the behemoth that is shoujo manga publishing. Realistically, the chances of that happening are...less than stellar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually sort of inclined to disagree with idea that either DC or Marvel could print up a few girl oriented titles then wham, be in the green. It would take a <i>serious</i> push from either of them to even issue a challenge to the behemoth that is shoujo manga publishing. Realistically, the chances of that happening are&#8230;less than stellar.</p>
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